structure v. architecture

Background: At Tocci, we utilize one Revit file per discipline: civil/site, architecture, structure, mechanical, electrical, plumbing & fire protection.

Originally, this made modeling walls problematic (we have to place the structural core in the structural file - with openings for doors/windows - and the architectural finishes with doors/windows in the architectural file), but we've gotten over that. We occasionaly have to debate where specific objects (like lighting fixtures) should be placed, but overall we've adjusted to the system.

Recently, a new issue was brought up: a door is placed in a structural CMU wall - the only finish on the wall is paint (which we don't model). Some ideas that we brainstormed:

  • Just place the door in structure (are there such things as structural doors?)
  • Model a thin wall in architecture to represent paint & place the door there
  • Place a duplicate wall in the architecture model and place the door there (that one made me cringe)
Eventually, the obvious solution came to us:

In structure, model the wall with an opening for the door:

In architecture, link the structural model. In the opening, place the same exact type of wall.

In architectural, place the door exactly over the wall - I turned off the linked structure model to do this.

The result: exactly what we wanted.


Jason H said...

Nice work around - shame Revit can't just handle it without the need to place a piece of wall in an opening that already exists....

hopefully this type of feature will turn up in Revit soon... or maybe they'll let you cut openings in walls that are in linked revit files...?

Steve said...

Did you consider copy/monitor? If you link the architecture model into Revit Structure you can copy/monitor the walls that are structural into your RS model. There is an option to create openings for windows and doors.

If you change the wall to something more appropriate the architect can make his walls match yours when they use Coordination Review to see what has changed.

This way these shared walls remain under both parties control but the their coordination is managed a bit better.

Allen said...

What is your reasoning for creating one file per discipline instead of one model for the entire project?

DBaldacchino said...

Another option instead of placing a wall in Architectural is to create non-hosted doors. So place structural walls in the structural file with the appropriate openings and in Architectural, "fill" the opening with a non-hosted door family (you can create one by starting from a generic model family and changing it to a door family. Just be careful because such a family will not have a level parameter).

Luigi Coletta said...

Hmm...I felt compelled to comment...
This sequence doesn't make sense in the design phase and coordination between A/E workflow (either 1 model with all disciplines, or a few models linked together...where Copy/Monitor is the workflow). Now, if you are doing this for your firm, apart from the Architect and Engineer, then why not add the door in the wall? (who cares where it resides...a door in a wall, is a door in a wall) So if you have a wall in Structure, just add a door in the wall. It is obvious that a door itself isn't part of the Structural wall, but is needed to provide rough opening....so that's it. Either place the door in a future phase, or just control its visibility by the fact that a door is a door.
Am I missing something? Why to be so complicated?

Luigi Coletta said...

As David B. pointed out, you can create any door to not need a wall as a host...but why? There are too many negatives in doing this.

So Revit can add a door where an opening is (with the properly created door) so no shame is warranted...but then, why would one want to add a door where a wall doesn't exist?

Luigi Coletta said...

I reread the first line of the original post...we use 1 file per each discipline? Maybe that is where all of my confusion came from? ;) If you want another workaround, the person who has the wall in their file can add a wall (with a special transparent material) as an opening. Then this/these transparent walls for openings can be copied/monitored, and a door inserted in it.

So embed a transparent wall to simulate the rough opening...so the creation of the opening is controlled in one file, and the insertion of the door in this wall in another file. Do any issues arise?